Episode 11: Changing The World Through Advocacy with Dr. Winn Sams

Dr. Winn Sams: “You were deployed at that time, weren’t you?”

“I was, I was.”

Dr. Winn Sams: “And so I asked him a really strange question (laughs), until this day I was like I got really weird, but I wanted to make sure that the money that I was paying was going to your family because I wanted to support them while you were gone or at least help.”

“You’re right.”

Dr. Winn Sams: “To know that my money was going to help was just really important to me. “

“Yeah, it was really a good deployment. It definitely made me had enough of the army as a soldier.

Dr. Winn Sams: “I bet.”

It was a weird time in the war because their kind of in a limbo because I think they wanted to wind it down.  There were so many, there were a lot of bad people there still that were doing some pretty bad stuff and so I think the administration was conflicted and then that just kind a trickled down from there and so, I don’t know if people knew exactly how to act. “

Dr. Winn Sams: “Well, I’m glad you’re back safely.”

“Me too. Thank you.”

Dr. Winn Sams: “And you’re done, right? You’re not going back?”

“They’re getting to, I don’t know if you know anything about medical and the DOD (Department of Defense), but they’re changing everything in this next year and they’ve got a new department that they set up this Public Defense Health Agency.

Dr. Winn Sams: “Yeah.”

Well each service is no longer going to be in-charge of its own health care. Medical command is going away. And it’s all falling under one centralized department that is going to be distributing health care. So everyone’s a little bit, especially the chiropractors, we’re not a hundred percent sure exactly what’s going to happen with the DHA and how they’re integrate to treat chiropractic into the health care. It’s dominated by physical therapists. They have no desire to seek chiropractic enhanced. They want to keep some small groups embedded in with the soldiers. And that’s where the army can hold on to some of their health care. So we submitted a proposal to the Sergeant General, me and a friend of mine who is an OT actually, and we’ve done a lot of work like at unit sites. The physical therapists like the idea, but they didn’t understand. I’m a diplomatic sport and so I love sports and I think that fits well with the army model. And so they just didn’t understand why a chiropractor would even be out of the team. So they asked me to send a proposal of why and what can a chiropractor offer without a physical therapists with the same training camp.”

Dr. Winn Sams: “It just shows how people just don’t know. They don’t understand and I think that’s where we get really frustrated because I totally understand where you’re coming from. I do a lot of advocacy work and I get legislation pass that hopefully will help, not only chiropractic, but other non-drug modalities especially with the opium epidemic that’s where my focus is right now. All I’m doing is holding accountable what’s already been said. But PT is always included, I mean that’s just the, if you think of a non-drug modality as far as you’re an allopathic physician, PA or whatever, that is the go to. It’s like no other non-drug modalities exists beyond PT (laughs).”

“Well, I think the things that I’ve seen at the hospital lately especially in PT because I ran my clinic when I was up in Washington. One of the things that I saw that stunned me, because these were really good PTs, what they did was dictated by the MD. And so I think that, one of the reasons why MDs like sending people to PTs, is they know they have absolute control of the PTs.”

Dr. Sams: “Absolutely, and insurance covers it so they know they’re not saying okay, here’s something you could do, sorry, you have to pay for it and it’s very physical. I mean, it makes sense to them, it’s very physical. It clicks and ticks boxes in the head that makes sense. Anyway, I think things are changing. And I think people like you who, are like boots on the ground so to say, are awesome because you’re actually helping it change by doing it. (Cheering)”

“If you come up with any, you hear with the legislation about chiropractic in the military, all the other thing too that we need desperately I think, is we need, we call them green suitors, so we need commissioned officers in the military which we don’t have because again they just drag their feet out even though congress has authorized it. They just keep coming up with excuses. But if we had a military component of chiropractic like actually commissioned officers, we would have someone to go to bat for us at the higher echelons which we don’t have right now. And I think if we want to see chiropractic take hold in the military, we have to start getting commissioned officers that can go to the Pentagon and start go in to bat for us.

Dr. Sams: “When you say commissioned officer that’s a particular group of people?”

“Well, there are three different types of soldiers: so you have here enlisted. Enlisted soldiers are noncommissioned. Commissioned means that you’re authority has been granted to you by the President.  So basically, you are the President’s representative on the ground.  You also have a lot of authority, but you also have a lot of responsibility. And you are in charge of a lot of different things. So, same with anything your liability also goes up.  So you’re liable for those soldiers that you’re over. “

Dr. Sams: “Yeah, the system’s the system and that’s what done want to change right now…long way.”

“And that’s why if you like him or you don’t like him, it doesn’t matter. But the President is one of the reasons why there’s so much animosity towards him, is because he thinks he contains the system. But you got a lot of people like just seeing it and I’m just a little component of the world of government, and I just see when we try to change something, even something simple, it’s just like it breaks people to set the breaks in nothing…

Dr. Sams: “I understand, but I will say that it can happen. West Virginia passed the bill recently with language in it.”

“Okay, very cool.”

Dr. Sams: and did you heard about the West Virginia Bill?

“I did not hear about it.”

Dr. Sams: “Yeah. It was introduced by DO, at least he has some kind of familiar to you with… Did you know that chiropractor in the Savanah origin who is working with, I mean, he’s a chiropractor. I don’t know if he’s doing chiropractic for the group, but last time I talked with him was he was doing training. He’s an activator doc like me. Have you heard about anybody in the Savannah area?”

“No.”

Dr. Sams: Okay. I lost track of him. I only see him a couple of time. I see him in seminars. I think his family situation was a little dicey so I don’t know whatever happened. But maybe, he’s working within the ranks too to establish chiropractic within the system.

“It’s difficult. The system is system.”

Dr. Sams: “Even though they do an osteopathic manipulation and we do chiropractic have enough bridges to cross. But at least, again it ticks the boxes and goes oh, yeah, I kind of know what they’re talking about and then it works. It was a great team and now everyone wants to get on board, each day, chiropractic association wants to do their own. But I find the thing that really makes the difference is the heart and the intent because if you try to push something, it pushes back.  If you’re in there like you are in your everyday: you go, you do your thing, you try to help educate… I mean your emo is not to change the system right off; your emo is just to provide care. Hopefully that catches on and people start to feel that people are changing. Something he’s doing is helping. It starts to like taking life on its own and then it’s not as much work. But pushing, in my experience, I was back with anything positive. Because it just initiates that push back, a tap or you got to stand up for something (laught)… So I have to go a different route. I mean contacting legislators. I just call until someone you’re hears me and who can get behind, because there’s plenty who don’t, or they refer it to the expert who really isn’t an expert. They like to call themselves that. But there’s always someone who likes this makes a lot of sense. You got you’re in. So I work with all 50 states, you’ll see things change. Georgia, I got a great legislator who will be bringing something next year.  So maybe that will help effect the military. It probably won’t because this is about, probably it may, it’s about putting the choice back in the patient’s hand. So, if you’re a soldier, is the patient, I think it would be effective, I don’t know. Maybe something gets on the books that can be the next step.’

“Right, I like it.”

Dr. Sams: “I’m up (laughs). I was like change in my next project, so I probably. I had trouble going to Washington, after that many, many times. I’ve never been to the Pentagon. But I’ve been many, many times, to all kinds of legislators’ offices and sat and talked. But I don’t want the talk; I want something to be done (laughs). That’s what everybody likes to do.”

“They like talking to Washington.”

Dr. Sams: “But thanks again for what you are doing, I think it’s so important. “

“So tell me a little about your clinic.”

Dr. Sams: “Well, I’m very small. And I did that for a reason. I went back to school or to Chiropractic College later than most people. I had lots of careers before. My marriage was ending, I had three little babies, I was like, Okay, what am I supposed to do? This came up. I was like, no, I don’t believe in chiropractic. That was one of the reasons why I can understand why people have issues with it because I did too. When you live both sides it’s like I know exactly where they are.

Anyway, after going through Chiropractic College, and being older, I just knew I wanted a certain kind of practice. I didn’t want a really busy chiropractic practice where I’m seen a hundred fifty people per day because I was still raising three children, three girls.  So I had to have something flexible, where I can make enough for comfortable living, but also be a mom and a parent. So, I just never had gotten out of that mode. So my practice was very niche-type of oriented. And it gives me opportunities to do stuff like my advocacy work which is incredibly important to me, the freedom to have time to be on the phone and talk to people and get things going, that sort of thing and if necessary, go meet and talk with people like I’m going up to West Virginia in a couple of weeks to talk to the school nurses. Because one of my advocacy passions is heavy back packs and trying to address… and you guys, this would have been applied to you because of your heavy stuff that you carry around. But everybody talks about how to wear one, what to buy, blah, blah, blah… But I’m talking about it from the inside and so I’ve gathered tons of research and have gotten resolutions passed in probably ten states with more to come that require talking points. So that people could understand that there’s damage going on inside and even as an accountability measure, I ask the chiropractors to do school screenings within the schools. We know how to catch it early. So I totally understand that the rebut value there. But you can see, I just do a lot of different things because I love healing on a huge scale and I love chiropractic but that’s not all who I am so. My practice is bigger than just seeing people. If that answers your question.”

“I’m just a little curious. Tell me about what you do for legislative work. How did you get involved in it and then where do you plan in going with it? And how does someone, if they want to get involved in helping with legislation, how do they do that?”

Dr. Sams: “Well, one of my prior careers was being a paralegal. So I am very grateful that legal lingo doesn’t scare me and I can write it. That’s what I’ve done is put to together when I send to legislators information, I try to send as much as possible to make it easy for them. So that it’s done. I don’t know if everybody sees that gift, but I just want to put it together in a single packing. So what I do with the heavy back packs some would be opening legislation. I gather research and links. I kind of approached it not as a ‘Will you help me’ but ‘I am helping you. I got information that could help you.’ In that way, if I find the right people who can just go ‘Yeah, this makes sense,’ then we got that in way. Hopefully we draw stuff together. Many states just ‘take my stuff and we’ll do the right thing.’ Like for example today, I am contacting Delaware, they’re coming out with a bill that has my intention on it. I don’t know if they use my language. Some people have to do it themselves. You know, I do it differently. Because most people when you think of legislation, they’re in for the fight. They got to lobby for this. We got to fight for that. And then you feel like, people have to pay, I’m like, no, I’m not paying for anything. I don’t hire any lobbyist, No. It’s just that why do I have to prostitute my cause out. I don’t have to work with people like that. “

“You have the skills to do, which is you are fantastic.”

Dr. Sams:“You know, what I have it’s no different with you Josh, because everything in our life, prepares us for what we are right now. That’s my belief. So everything that you are experiencing is perfect where you are right now. Everything I’m doing is perfect for where I am right now. You know, years ago when I wasn’t doing it, I had no idea. I had some inking like I need to be doing this for some reason. Okay (laughs), but you know if I haven’t gone into Chiropractic College, my oldest daughter wouldn’t have gone. So she’s a chiropractor. So you know, it’s just you don’t know how much good you’re doing until maybe later you get Wow! I’m so glad it happened that way.”

“A couple of years ago, I submitted a patent and it was approved. But when I first submitted it, kind a like what you’re saying, I think to help young docs that might be interested in this. I had no clue how to submit a patent. If I don’t submit it, then my ideas is not going to be submitted in to law. And so, I figured it out there first. It was like what you were talking about.”

Dr. Sams: “Somebody might take it. With West Virginia, they took all the credit. The chiropractic association said ‘Oh, this was our bill.’ And I’m like, ‘No it wasn’t’ (laughs). I don’t really need the kudos, but be honest you know. People are like that. It’s amazing.  And I guess I’m naïve when it comes to that. Really, you could do that? Why would you do that? I had a part in it. I helped, but they said ‘this is our bill.’ I mean, act as smart. But even with what you came up with Parapro, that was exactly what I wanted, because I have spent ten thousand dollars. I think it was either 8 or 10 for a program that was hard drive.”

“You’re on a local server, something of that nature.”

Dr. Sams: “I was promised that it was flexible and I could adapt it because I’m an activator doctor. I don’t have the same approach as far as documentation. I mean yes, we all do oursothenotes pretty much the same, we’re supposed to because there are standards that we cover. But as far as what I document and what I do, and the listings that I use, are totally different: Versifier, gone standard, and any other tech therapies. So, I needed something flexible because once I bought that, and then in their mind, it was flexible. But in mine it wasn’t. I didn’t get my money back. So I was like, ‘okay, there has to be something that you’ll be willing to work with me, they can design what I need and that was you guys. And I didn’t get the point that was at the very beginning of all the certification, nobody knew where it was going. Nobody knew what rules were, and I was like, I don’t want the money, I just want some—

“And now you look at it, it’s all dead anyways.”

Dr. Sams: “It’s all dead anyways, but I think you guys offer and excellent product. It’s simple. It’s not fancy. I don’t want the bills—it’s like a car, you know, the more bills and muscles, the more things go wrong. I just want a way that I can document and flow. And the way it works, so, your brainchild, or whoever’s brainchild it was to offer this, and it’s affordable, it’s a great product I would imagine to, people at the school that needs something that is affordable to get started with. But that’s no different than me with the legislation. You saw what I need, and you were like, ‘Oh, ‘it seems like Peter is  a great computer brains, so, the two of you guys go together are like—“

“And that was one of the things, the reason why I started it because I was trying to do an office in another location. And have to do on a gym because of sports. I just needed something that could travel with me. One of the things that I saw that just drove me crazy about chiropractic software, probably software AHR in general, but there was always a promise but then there was a hook. So we said, we’re just one month you feel, you like it, you don’t, you can leave at any second. Because I wanted to be able to afford it if I didn’t have, you know, if I wasn’t associated with it, I could still do this even as a single doc in a small office. I could make it work for me in my office. So that’s why we came up with this.”

 

Dr. Sams: “It travels with you. It’s perfect at least for me. The legislation is no different. This is what this is leading to. I’m right brains, so I go woo, I’ll get there. But it’s all the same. So you see a need, and you’re like, we have something that can help build this need. And you start gathering information, data, research and links to work. Again, I think it’s very powerful if it’s already been defined for example, by congress. Hold them accountable. I know it seems like under that same, it’s like pie in the sky, but you can do that. You know, It’s like I’m holding the AMA, CDC, GEMA, Joint commission, WMA, all of them have said, for example, that non-pharmacological approaches need to be your first line of defense. Therefore —-, nobody does it. Just a quick dodge, last May I got a chance to go to Geneva, Switzerland, and speak at a person center conference about service that I started. Well, this is another thing. This is why I need more time that what I just practice (laughs) because I have lots of ideas. But I started a site / service called Least Invasive First. I did this because, one of my daughters, again, I saw a need for communication. You go look at it, it’s called leastevasivefirst.org. But she had a surgery that was not needed. Her gall bladder out which was not needed. I was sitting on the sideline, and I was like ‘hey you guys, she’s not showing the symptoms of a gall bladder issue. Give me a week, I’ll bring her back. If she’s not any better, and she was 18 at that time, she can couldn’t make a decision, she was in a lot of pain, and she was just like take it out. She wrote that, but the doctors totally overrode me. And in the hospital’s mission statement they say: ‘We work with the family, and blah, blah, blah…’ So I met with the CEO, who is a surgeon, and I was like, look you know, it is not in my scope of practice to tell you that you did malpractice, but I will tell you that you didn’t follow your mission statement, you didn’t give proper performance there. And that’s it, a big problem. They said ‘yeah, you’re right. We did.’ And then I said, ‘what are you going to do about it?’ Then they said, ‘we’ll take care of it.’ I was like, how can I know? And they just kind of screwed around the issue. And the CEO goes, ‘I don’t know how to say this, but if you don’t want ice cream, don’t come to an ice cream store.’ And I’m like, Oh God, get me out of here. I’m going to kill somebody! I got my car dashing. I was so freaking angry and I was like, why am I so angry? And you know, because he’s right. If you don’t want drugs or surgery, don’t come here. He goes, ‘by the way, I don’t believe in touchy feely stuff. They have a wellness program, that’s touchy feely. I guess that makes you lots of money, but he didn’t believe in it. So you see, here was, there has to be some way of communicating.

So I started this site service: it’s a digital 24/7 service that you carry around with you and you can put your directives. What you want. What you need to do along with your red flag, medical information, but not all of it. I wouldn’t involve that, but it’s just a way you can upload forms, you can upload documents that will support them knowing how to do a better plan of care but not their standard of care. It is involving the patient. So anyway, in doing my marketing for Least Evasive First, I found out that nobody wanted it. I thought everybody’s going to be like ‘Everybody’s going to work with this. This is going to be great!” You probably know how that feels like? Nope. And I found out so many darker things about it that I was like, ‘this is amazing!’. Anyway, I got invited to share my research, my experience with this Geneva conference. And it was an all medical doctor conference. Two of my daughters with me, and by the way, if you haven’t been to Geneva though, it’s gorgeous. And these were doctors from all over the world that was put on by the World Health Organization. So during one of the presentations, by the World Health Organization, their representative said their definition of health between them. This is what we’ve been taught right? It’s not purely access of disease; this is health of the whole person. So after he got finished I raised my hand, asked a question, they literally, the people from WHO literally tried to skip me. I was going to say something… Because I was the only chiropractor invited. The audience goes, no, let the lady speak. I said, ‘look I’m so glad that you said, this definition of health because that’s the chiropractor, that’s what we’re taught. That’s what we believe and that’s what we practice. However, in the states, I’m not considered a real doctor and I’d like to know your opinion of where we got off track, because our health system right now is totally about illness and disease.  And of course, they didn’t answer my question. It got people thinking, and I say all of this, just so you could know the legislation. If you can get people thinking that’s where you start. It’s not where you have to have everybody to agree with you.  But you just have to find that one person that could hear you from where you’re coming from. You provide the documentation that’s already been defined. And it’s just isn’t being implemented. We need to hold this accountability for not being implemented. Then it takes the fight out of the game. And it’s just a matter of why aren’t we doing this. This is law and how come are we not implementing it? What’s the obstacle? It doesn’t matter who you are, we just need to work smarter and quit fighting.”

“You mentioned the Joint Commission and those are the things they consider us physicians. But even in the hospital, we’re considered physicians, so they have to treat us like physicians. We’re still not given the respect of a physician. They will still be supervisors who are non-physicians. And the pay discrepancy is ridiculous compared to what they pay with physicians. I mean I still make a great living, so I’m not complaining about my living. But the discrepancy between a primary care doc and me, and even as a specialist, a certified specialist, is a lot.”

Dr. Sams: “Maybe that’s where you go with it. It’s going in now. We are considered physicians. In Switzerland, chiropractors are in the same level as an MD, DO, I mean, they’re the same. I’d go practice in Switzerland if I could. But that’s where you get started. Okay, we are recognized as physicians but our pay grade doesn’t reflect that. The respect and honor, doesn’t reflect that. Again, it’s holding people accountable. Look, there are too many words that are flying around that have no physical ground. And that’s what people believe. And you know, people do this Josh, because they know they can. No one’s going to come and go ‘hey you’re not,’ and you may have to be the one. So that’s a lot of times we complain about. Well this isn’t happening. We’ll bring it then.”

“Right.”

Dr. Sams: “I’ll help you any way I can. The reason I did Least Evasive First and what I’m doing now isn’t for chiropractic. It’s for quality. It’s for a level plain field. I do not see allopathic medicine as being better or worse, it is just another modality. Period. But people, like I was talking about, with the people ‘oh, we got a doctor on our legislator,’ he’s our Opiod expert. No he’s not. If they were the experts, they would have existed in the first place.”

“The same thing yesterday, I sat through a brief, the number one issue that people go to their primary care for and that they’re called profiles in the military, and the number one issues why they have those are muscular injuries. It’s been that way for the last a hundred and fifty years and probably longer for the military. And you know what, if you are in charge of a company, and you kept having the same problem for a hundred and fifty years, what would happen? You’d be fired. We still say, oh let’s just keep going with the same thing. Let’s not change the model because, the people that are in charge are still in charge. But they say that’s the definition of insanity. They keep on doing the same thing with the same result. And that’s what’s going on with our country right now. It’s a whole bunch of insanity because we still want to do the same stuff. All they do is prescribe OPx, so they keep on prescribing OPx.

Dr. Sams: “You know what’s real to me is what’s in the physical. So like what you’ve been talking about, the words are, everything is on paper. This is the way it should be. But it’s not in the physical, so it’s not real. It sounds good, everybody’s like great. But it’s not real. Until it is being enacted, then it will be real. So it’s just a matter of bringing, first of all, I had to learn that they’re just people. Like my youngest daughter is starting on Broadway now. So you know, she’s gone from being dainty to a celebrity and everybody wants to be that. So we kind a give our power away to people that have what we don’t see what we have. So, legislators are celebrities and in people’s eyes, they’re just people. So if you can come across as ‘Hey, I’m a person too. You’re just a person.’ And you relay on a heart level and equal whether you start putting that into space. And so I would be glad to help you find somebody who could listen. And you know, just maybe start the wheels and motion. You would be the crucial part though because you’re the one who’s living it. I can get it started. But you would have to be the one really, because like I said, it’s more real to you than it is to me. I am not living it. I live in different ways. I certainly don’t get that respect and honor in my community or other people. Me and my patients, they respect and honor sometimes their MDs and their opinions more than my professional opinion. But that’s okay. But I hope that’s something that we can address. In addressing stuff like this, you know, just the baby steps, will start to ripple out. I’ll be glad to help. Just let me know when we’ll start.”

“Can I ask you a couple of questions about ChiroPractice Pro? I’m sure you want to do something. What’s your favorite feature of ChiroPractice Pro?”

Dr. Sams: “I would say the flexibility, because I helped design what my needs were. Then I’m included. Do you know what I’m saying? I would say it would be the flexibility; you are a part of designing your support and your documentation and what you need.”

“And the customization may be for your practice.”

Dr. Sams: “Yes.”

“I like that, and how does it help with your productivity?”

Dr. Sams: “Well, again, because I helped design, because it was part of the customization, I have more flow. It’s already built with the way that I worked. So I haven’t reinvented the wheel. I took it the way I practiced prior but just put it in a EHR format.’

“Have you told other people about ChiroPractice Pro?”

Dr. Sams: “Uhuh. I’ve referred a couple of people and one actually signed up with you. Yeah, I do, because I think it’s awesome. Another is the ease in filing claims, because I don’t take insurance but I do have to file Medicare for people, I’m a non-par physician, so everybody pays me upfront but they get reimbursed. I still have to file for people who have little government card.  So all I do is fill in the information, it’s populated, I just make sure that it’s accurate and I check it, make sure that I haven’t missed, my diagnosis codes are the same. And I send. It’s very easy.”

“That’s nice. Good.”

Dr. Sams: “All of my patients are on Medicare, so it makes very easy to do that. And so every Sunday is when I sit down and send my claims.”

“How long does it take you to send those?”

Dr. Sams: “Well, depending on how many patients I see that are on Medicare. I would say an average of two minutes.”

“Okay, I like that.”

Dr. Sams: “Yeah, it’s really, really easy. For me, if something works and it’s helping me in my life, I don’t need motivation to share. I’ll just share. You know, here you go. Here’s what works for me.”

“You’ve given us some amazing gold today that people can really use, especially when they think about getting involved in their community, getting involved in the legislation. I think about what you said is very powerful.”

Dr. Sams:“Well, thank you.”

“What’s the best way especially with Least Evasive First, how are they going to get in touch with you about how do I get involved and do this advocacy or legislation? What’s the best way to get in touch with you?”

Dr. Sams: “Well, you can provide my cell which is 828-817-4544. I would say the advocacy work though is not for everyone because again, it’s hard for us to get out of this victim mentality. Like we’ve been wronged, we’ve got to fight for our place. It’s not the way it needs to go. It’s more of, ‘hey, we’re all people, they believe this, I believe this. But my beliefs have been documented in and have been accounted for to they’re just not being implemented. It’s a different approach. If we come at it from a victim mentality, you would continue to be a victim. You’ve just given your power away. Does that make sense?”

“Very much so.”

Dr. Sams: “I’ll be glad to help in any way I can. We got to do some changing too. As chiropractors, we’re so used to being the victim, we’re not helping ourselves because we’re perpetuating being a victim still.”

“Right.”

Dr. Sams: “it’s not just doing advocacy work, getting things changed and they need to change. Everybody needs to change. We need to change in the sense of we know what we’ve been through. We know what type of education we’ve had. We know that grueling hours and exams and boards that we have to pass. We know that. So it’s time for us to stop acting like we’re valuable and what we offer is irreplaceable. So once we start doing that, it just going to automatically start changing things just the way it works. I’m sorry I just keep going on and on. I’m just so passionate about it Josh. It’s just like ugh (laughs).”

“Winn, thank you so much for hanging out with me this morning. I appreciate it and I enjoyed talking with you and getting to meet you. And hopefully, we don’t live that far away. So if ever you going to come Atlanta, or if ever I come over that way, just make sure we get together. “

Dr. Sams: “Absolutely, I’ll go to Atlanta for my continuing end and I plan on coming to meet with the legislator and maybe you’d be a good person if you don’t mind going up to testify when the bill is dropped and is heard. But I’ll be there because it’s too clumsy for me not to be. So we’ll have a chance.”

“That’ll be great!”

Dr. Sams: “It has been great. Thank you for inviting me.”

“It was fantastic, I enjoyed it. I loved talking with our different clients and I want to make this the best software because, for me, I loved it because it was my baby to start off with.

Dr. Sams: “See that’s how it feels with me in the advocacy. It’s your baby; you want to see it live and thrive. And you keep advancing it and improving. So yeah, absolutely.”

“And I love your feedback, so we’ll get something for that stuff going on. Thank you, Winn.

Dr. Sams: “You are so welcome. Have a good day!”

Talk to you soon, bye!

Dr. Winn Sams is an inspiration and is doing a good work to help promote chiropractic in very high levels. Her dedication to making sure patients get the right care is incredibly admirable and I am grateful she took the time to share her story with us. If you like the way she’s using ChiroPractice Pro, and you want to check out what it can do for you, send me a message at josh@chiropracticepro.comor from our contact page on chiropracticepro.comford/contact.

I hope you are inspired today to take action in your community, state and country to do something big for your profession. It takes a little each day, but if we bend together, we can do amazing things together. Thanks for joining us on the ChiroPractice Pro Podcast. We’ll see you next time, right here at chiropracticepro.com.